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Re: from the libertarian newspaper
by Jared 23 Jan '07

23 Jan '07

> A Snow Penguin is off topic, but this intense exposure of sociological > ignorance isn't? Well, if it were an intense exposure of sociological ignorance, this might be a valid point. But it isn't. The thread is entirely ON-topic, being a wide-ranging discussion centered on Linux as a complex social, political, and philosophical force in the world. > Windows sells because Windows works. Most of the time, for most people, who > need it specifically for one thing or another. Linux can be made to work > better if a) you're very lucky or b) you are or have access to a Linux guru. Actually, it's the other way around. Windows works because Windows sells. You see, we have very strong laws and social ethics protecting the consumer from fraud in the United States. I firmly believe that this is the reason Windows works -- because the logic which drives any marketing-driven strategy is simply not sufficient to explain their technical ability. In other words, it is true that Microsoft has actual technical ability. But a deeper analysis of this fact reveals that its technical competence comes by a very different path than Linux. Microsoft is composed of micro-meritocracies operating within a larger purely capitalistic hierarchy. Linux is a meritocracy attracting both micro-meritocracies and micro-capitalists. All are welcome, even those who lumber around telling people they're not welcome. :) To be brief, Microsoft is marketing-driven, and Linux is tech-driven, and the two strategies are fundamentally different in origin and destination, even when to outward appearances they may manifest similar attributes because they are targeting the same audience. You write "Linux can be made to work better if you are lucky or a guru." So become a guru. This would be a valid criticism if it were difficult to become a Linux guru. It just takes time and curiousity. You see, as long as Linux remains wide open, you're finding fault with the great strength of Linux, not its weakness. > My dad tried Linux - I think it was a Knoppix disk I sent him - and he > couldn't get his printer to work. That's a deal killer - and probably a > permanent loss of a potential user. Not everybody would have an easier time > using a Linux computer, even one running Gnome. Any user who stops using Knoppix because his printer doesn't work, ought to be using Windows anyway. Windows caters to the consumer because of the strong ethic against fraud, whereas Linux caters to the user who is curious, and became a programmer to fix things. One is driven by a carrot and a stick, and the other is driven by a carrot alone. > There's a reason there isn't a "College of Conservative Arts". Yes. The College of Conservative Arts is everything that is not organized within the College of Liberal Arts, and they're being modest about it. -Jared

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OT: Snow Tux
by Christopher A. Bier 22 Jan '07

22 Jan '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 My girlfriend and I made a snow tux this weekend. http://www.cymor.com/albums/SnowPenguin/aah.thumb.jpg http://www.cymor.com/gallery/SnowPenguin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFtN8HE5xXU3JS1mQRAjriAKDU6/F/3K3NhQCuCZLmclfX3WnzIgCg0dgh xSpj3wvY2wc7wbmSSx/m3bM= =nasj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Libertarian Newspaper
by Dale Beams 20 Jan '07

20 Jan '07

A farmer feeds his cattle hay. Hay is hay. There are types of hay, alfalfa, brome, sudan, millet, cane, sorghum, etc. to name a few. A herds health is dependent upon not from feeding the cattle hay, but by feeding the cattle different types of hay. An OS is an OS. Destroying one OS in favor of another does not provide OS diversity. If (competing OS) is a tree, and people are attacking the branches, and not the roots, some trees will grow back. If you attack the roots and kill the tree, then you might feel you have succeeded. Linux in it's current state however, is like a tree with roots, but with no branches. A tree will not grow properly if it never has branches. Branches as in software choices. Currently I don't know of a way to put AutoCad (in it's updated form) on Linux. There are many commercial software packages for windows where there is no equivalent for linux. Cutting down the tree in your back yard on the west side of your house next to the patio window without having another in it's place is like destroying on OS in favor of another. Leave the OS in front of the patio window, it will die in it's own time. Instead plant another to replace it and concentrate on norishing it and it's relationships with other companies. Linux needs to quit worrying about "attacking" roots and begin worrying more about why it has no branches. Just my two cents _________________________________________________________________ Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://im…

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from the libertarian newspaper
by David Nicol 19 Jan '07

19 Jan '07

23) Operating systems: Lessons for Libertarians 1.0 Strike the Root by Carlton Hobbs "A typical example of socialist distribution vs. market distribution is any market where a free society provides many choices but a socialist state makes a singular decision for everyone. Not only does Linux not match this model of socialist centralization, but Microsoft does. Here is the key, by eliminating heavy dependency on proprietary software, you eliminate one centralization of abusable power. Linux ties its user into its knowledge base, but by its license agreement, that ties users into no one in particular, as good ideas can be taken and forked or merged into other projects. It leaves the source code open so anyone who desires can become an expert." (01/17/07) http://www.strike-the-root.com/71/hobbs/hobbs1.html -- Q: How do I decode unix seconds-since-the-epoch timestamps? A: xterm -T TIMESTAMP_TRANSLATOR -e perl -ple'$_= ~~localtime$_' &

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RE: from the libertarian newspaper
by Jared 19 Jan '07

19 Jan '07

> "A typical example of socialist distribution vs. market distribution is any > market where a free society provides many choices but a socialist state > makes a singular decision for everyone. Not only does Linux not match this > model of socialist centralization, but Microsoft does. Here is the key, by > eliminating heavy dependency on proprietary software, you eliminate one > centralization of abusable power. Linux ties its user into its knowledge > base, but by its license agreement, that ties users into no one in > particular, as good ideas can be taken and forked or merged into other > projects. It leaves the source code open so anyone who desires can become > an expert." (01/17/07) Socialism masquerades as libertarianism until it has power, and then it drops the niceties used to convince the masses that something positive is happening, when in truth, power was consolidating. I used to be a Libertarian until I realized I was merely a tool in the hands of the socialists, who are a tool in the hands of the secret organizations, who are everywhere and nowhere. It is nice that a Libertarian newspaper is talking about Linux, and there was one good observation made in the quote above, but they are merely using Linux to advance their own agenda, not for its original purpose, which Linus made clear early on: Joy. Linus was having fun, and still is. Libertarians and socialists are grumpy because they have no power in a Republic, and they have axes to grind. I wholeheartedly agree that Linux is _not_ anarchist, and would have written Jeremy Fowler's argument if he hadn't. Linux is very hierarchical. Thus my concern is not for where it is today, but where it will go after Linus passes away as an old man. The real danger is in something as powerful as Linux being controlled by someone who is as powerful as Linus Torvalds... but has no joy. The salient point in the article quoted above is that ANYONE can study the code and become an expert in it. This makes it a meritocracy. Meritocracy demands that its ruling class be an expert in something other than ruling, which makes it apolitical in nature. Politicians continually try, but fail, to control it. Linux is a rigorously structured meritocracy of joy. -Jared

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RE: from the libertarian newspaper
by Jared 19 Jan '07

19 Jan '07

> Well, I wouldn't come to your dinner party, because if your cooking > reflected your understanding of politics, the apple pie would have meat > in it and the steak would be a combination of lentils and dandelion greens. We're drifting off topic, so be kind. The reason to be nice in conversation about politics is this: If you are not nice, the other guy wins. Your audience is not the other guy, but those who overhear the conversation. Your politics ought to reveal that you are a gentleman. I like Jeremy's argument quite well, and find it to be more lucid and mature than yours. I'll be bringing bread to dinner. Homemade. Kneaded it myself. Do not be angry at the Libertarians. Do not be angry at the Socialists. Do not be angry at the Anarchists. Do not be angry at the Republicans or the Democrats. Do not be angry at Microsoft or Linux, Buddha or Christ. But be fanatically angry at the ones who keep secrets, whose strategy is to pit us against each other while they reap profit from the wars. John 18:20: "In secret have I said nothing." -Jared

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Remove me
by Apollo7771＠comcast.net 19 Jan '07

19 Jan '07

Please remove APOLLO7771(a)COMCAST.NET from this mailing list. Thanks.

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SANS Training at KU
by Dave Hull 18 Jan '07

18 Jan '07

Apologies in advance if this seems spammy, but I wanted to remind potentially interested folks. And no, I don't get anything out of this. ----------------------------- The University of Kansas and SANS are pleased to offer the extremely popular six-day certification course, "Hacker Techniques, Exploits & Incident Handling." (SANS course description: http://www.sans.org/training/description.php?tid=243) This training course is open to anyone. Special discounts are available for employees K-12 and college, members of law enforcement, and state employees. There is also an opportunity for vendors to participate as sponsors in a Vendor Expo during the opening evening. SECURITY 504: Hacker Techniques, Exploits & Incident Handling April 22 – 28, 2007 9am – 6pm, Mon-Sat. (with a "Capture the Flag" session on Saturday) Holiday Inn Holidome, Lawrence, KS REGISTRATION: Course fees for employees of an accredited educational institution, members of law enforcement or state employees: $895 – Early Registration (by January 19, 2007) $995 – Late Registration (after January 19, 2007) Course fees for non-education/non-law enforcement attendees: $3,250 – Must register by March 1, 2007 The registration fee includes: * Course Registration * Manuals * Daily Refreshment Breaks * Daily Lunches * Reception Dinner, April 22, 2007 During the week of class, you may also register to seek your GCIH Certification for an additional fee of $300. To register or for more information, please go to: http://www.continuinged.ku.edu/programs/security/ VENDORS/SPONSORS: A vendor expo will be held the first evening, Sunday, April 22. Information can be found at: http://www.continuinged.ku.edu/programs/security/exhibitors.pdf ------------------------------------------------------- Now back to your regularly scheduled LUGging. -- Dave Hull

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RE: Remove me
by Kelsay, Brian - Kansas City, MO 18 Jan '07

18 Jan '07

Two posts enter, one post leaves. _____ From: Monty J. Harder Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 9:16 AM "Welcome to the LUG List California..." On 1/17/07, Luke -Jr wrote: On Wednesday 17 January 2007 10:58, Apollo7771(a)comcast.net wrote: > Please remove APOLLO7771(a)COMCAST.NET from this mailing list. Thanks. No. You cannot leave! :p

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weather and meeting?
by Oren Beck 16 Jan '07

16 Jan '07

Is there a meeting tonight?

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