KCLUG September 2007

kclug@kclug.org

50 participants
53 discussions

(no subject)
by jared＠hatwhite.com 12 Sep '07

12 Sep '07

Not sure why my subject-lines keep disappearing. I hope this one gets through. You _could_ respond: "But you have completely and fundamentally misunderstood the basic laws of physics, you misapply them with absurd and empirically unproveable logic, and you are nuts!" Interesting assumption that you have in your system. I removed that axiom from mine some time ago, and am having a blast. Try it. It's kind of fun. http://tesladownunder.com/ -Jared

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Re: Have you seen this!?! Burning saltwater
by Joe Fish 12 Sep '07

12 Sep '07

> > 4) The idea that we shouldn't use hydrogen as fuel > because it takes more energy to extract it than it > will deliver is silly. The only way to get fuel > that takes less energy to produce than it takes to > make is to pump it out of the ground, and I'm not > entirely certain even that is true. Incorrect. Hydrogen makes no sense as a fuel EXACTLY because it takes more energy for us to produce it RIGHT NOW, than it gives us back RIGHT NOW. Oil takes more energy to produce than it gives off also, but that's unimportant, because the energy input was from the sun millions of years ago, but we can get the output NOW, with far less energy than we have to put in NOW. The same goes for wood, even though its sun energy is put in more or less contemporaneously with our use of it (ie, the sun puts in energy over the course of sometime during the last 100 years, we burn wood and get that energy back NOW). Its called EROEI -- Energy Returned On Energy Invested .... Invested, not Input -- if it were INPUT, all fuels would have EROEI's of less than 1. As it turns out, using current techniques and technologies, EROEI for hydrogen is FAR LESS than 1, while oil is probably more like in the range of 30 to 100 (depending mainly on the grade of oil, depth, and extraction method). Now, in terms of EROEI, there are several things that have greater-than-one values that are NOT fuels, such as windmills and solar panels and wave generators -- we can make these on a relatively "cheap" energy budget, then use them to HARVEST energy that WE (humans) don't have to invest ... because it comes from the sun, or from gravitational forces, in the case of wave energy. The question hydrogen skeptics are asking is, once we have this power generated, why waste a huge portion of it making a fuel, just so Fat Bastards in the fuel-distribution business can keep their jobs? Why not just use the energy directly, instead of shifting it all around into different forms? All THAT said, it does take energy input and materials to make batteries or some other means of storing the energy to propel a vehicle, assuming you want some sort of system where the vehicles don't have to travel along energized tracks of some sort. So the question really becomes, can this (or any tech) make it so the currently-exorbitant-and-unrealistically-huge cost of electrolysis and creation of precious-metal-intensive fuel cells are actually cheaper and more efficient than simply creating batteries and using the generated electricity (almost) directly? And don't even get me STARTED on how impractical hydrogen-as-a-fuel is in terms of STORAGE losses ... Do you think it > costs less to produce batteries than it does to > produce an energy equivalent of Hydrogen? Actually it does ... especially considering the creation of the fuel cell to USE that hydrogen, which nobody's come up with an economical way of making without the extraordinarily rare metal PLATINUM -- the reality is that, without a breakthrough in that area, we CAN'T use hydrogen as a viable fuel, because we DON'T HAVE ENOUGH platinum to create fuel cells for our huge fuel-using infrastructure. All that said, this technique may be useful for > extracting Hydrogen. It needs to be determined if > it takes less energy to do this than other methods of > extracting Hydrogen. At this point, this method could reduce the energy input for electrolyzing hydrogen by an order of magnitude, and creating hydrogen for fuel STILL wouldn't make good engineering sense ...

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Have you seen this!?! Burning saltwater
by Jeremy Fowler 12 Sep '07

12 Sep '07

Radio frequencies breaks apart the hydrogen and oxygen in salt water - watch it burn! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kKtKSEQBeI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6vSxR6UKFM The oil companies are going to be pissed!!! Oh man, I hope this isn't a hoax!

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move to california, work for Google
by David Nicol 12 Sep '07

12 Sep '07

I have been asked to forward this link to local mailing lists so here it is. Recruiter contact available on request. http://www.google.com/support/jobs/bin/answer.py?answer=23591

1 0

Kernel panic as an unneeded event.
by Oren Beck 12 Sep '07

12 Sep '07

Ok folks, here's a mindset wrench. CAN we make a set of fallbacks to allow a certain minimal function allowing a potential "panic" to seek external help? This help could come from either defaults designed to establish a session with human agents or some AI mimic. Starting from the point I have left us at where it is taken as not arguable that a Knoppix concept routine set CAN establish a remote session and functional remote console interface, then the external intelligence hopefully could complete the Linux install. Constructive comments anyone? Oren Beck "So, you mean there was a time when an installer did NOT include remote support?"

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(no subject)
by jared＠hatwhite.com 11 Sep '07

11 Sep '07

There are -101 types of people in the world. -1 Those for whom the glass is half empty. 0 Those for whom the glass is an infinite holographic energy flow which redefines quantum mechanics to qualitum mechanics, as well as providing 12 essential vitamins and minerals. 1 Those for whom the glass is half full. -Jared

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Recommendations for sub-$300 standards-based inkjet printer?
by Leo Mauler 11 Sep '07

11 Sep '07

I just got a nice job with Everest Cable (sadly I do not live in an apartment complex served by Everest) so with the income coming in I will be able to get a replacement printer. The current HP color inkjet printer got knocked off its shelf by some cats, and now only prints in black ink. Someone mentioned that it was a good idea to get a standards-based printer rather than something served by HPLIP. In about three weekly paychecks (temp-to-perm in 90 days) I'll have about $200-$300 to spend on a new printer. I was wondering if anyone has seen a color inkjet printer which is standards-based, for sale at a Kansas City store. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/

2 1

What's with the website?
by Julie 10 Sep '07

10 Sep '07

I just tried to get into "our" website ( http://www.kclug.org/ ) and, AGAIN, I cannot. What's up with this? Anyone else having probs? Last time this happened I missed a meeting...grrrr!!! Just wondering..... Julie @};- --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

16 22

"Yo mama..."
by Ed Allen 10 Sep '07

10 Sep '07

"Yo mama so FAT she need defragged once a week!"

10 11

"Yo Mama..."
by Ed Allen 10 Sep '07

10 Sep '07

Yo Mama so old she just two bit.

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KCLUG September 2007